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Post by beetlehorn on May 8, 2011 20:14:37 GMT -8
Based on some scientific evidence I have personally seen, I can't help but think that something in the environment is changing at abnormal rates. I am just wondering how many of you believe that global warming is a real threat by the activities of man, or just a cyclical event that has happened before in the past? I cannot personally present anyone with proof one way or the other, so my comments on this matter are somewhat arbitrary. It would be interesting to see what readers of this forum think about this controversial subject though. I personally tend to think that there is something to consider when glaciers shrink by hundreds of feet in just a matter of a few years! Tom
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Post by Chris Grinter on May 8, 2011 20:58:13 GMT -8
More along the lines of manufactroversy. Science vs. political nonsense.
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ruma
Junior Member
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Post by ruma on May 9, 2011 3:26:38 GMT -8
hi tom
i'm pretty sure we have it coming to us, i think the planet before has had higher levels of co2 etc. and been hotter etc, i think it is the rate of change of climate that is going to be a problem.
I heard a lot of the glacial reduction is due to deforestation hence moisture transpired back into the atmosphere to form the ice, that is around equatorial mountains, cant speak for mountains further into both hemispheres.
Apparently once we have passed a critical temperature we will be buggered essentially as higher temps will cause breakdown of Organic matter stored up there in the cold, causing release of CO2 and more warming.
Also of interest is a feature i recently heard about termed global dimming, which is caused by our release of smoke, dust, fumes into the air which is partially obscuring the full effect of global warming through reducing/ reflecting the light entering our atmosphere. When countries burn fuel cleaner to produce 'cleaner' emmision and clear up there atmosphere it can lead to higher temperatures as more light gets through. pheeeww what mouthful, thats all i know, wether or not its all true couldnt say, got me thinking for sure,
cheers
waz
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Post by jshuey on May 9, 2011 10:41:29 GMT -8
Here is some info if you don't think you know enough to decide... Articles/Reports • Pew Center on Global Climate Change Releases Report, Climate Change Adaptation: What Federal Agencies are Doing Federal agencies are stepping forward to meet this challenge and are beginning mainstream consideration of climate change adaptation across their programs and policies. These federal actions are still diffuse and as such, this report attempts to capture and highlight these efforts. www.pewclimate.org/publications/report/climate-change-adaptation-what-federal-agencies-are-doing • DRAFT Report to Congress: Strengthening the Scientific Understanding of Climate Change Impacts on Freshwater Resources of the United States This report responds to the Omnibus Public Lands Act and identifies key actions to improve the Nation's capacity to detect and predict changes in freshwater resources that are likely to result from a changing climate. The ultimate goal is to help decision-makers and water resource managers. acwi.gov/Rpt.Congress3.18.11.pdf • MIT Report: Significant Global Warming Expected Regardless of Different Approaches This paper presents projections of climate change consequences using various emission scenarios developed by intergovernmental, government and industry groups. In all these scenarios, the climate system undergoes substantial changes, which will require considerable adaptation and will leave some aspects of the earth's environment irreversibly changed. The remarkable aspect of these different approaches is not the differences in detail and philosophy but rather the similar picture they paint of a world at risk from climate change even if there is substantial effort to reduce emissions. www.springerlink.com/content/5025626rp532v857/ • Flood Experience Boosts Climate Change Acceptance People who have directly experienced flooding are more likely to be worried about climate change and willing to adopt energy-saving behavior, according to a new study by Lauren Morello and ClimateWire. The article is available at the Scientific American website: www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=flood-experience-boosts-climate-change-acceptance • USGS Releases: Sink or Source? A New Model to Measure Organic Carbon in Surface Waters A new carbon model allows scientists to estimate sources and losses of organic carbon in surface waters in the United States. Study results indicate that streams act as both sources and sinks for organic carbon. The report is available at: www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=2714 • National Research Council Releases Booklet, Warming World: Impacts by Degree This booklet, based on the National Research Council report, Climate Stabilization Targets: Emissions, Concentrations, and Impacts Over Decades to Millennia (2011), outlines the scientific information that makes it clear that emission reductions today matter in determining impacts that will be experienced over the next few decades and into the coming centuries and millennia. The booklet explains how policy choices can be informed by recent advances in climate science that show the relationships among increasing carbon dioxide, global warming, related physical changes, and resulting impacts. For more information, visit: dels.nas.edu/Materials/Booklets/warming-world • Climate Change and Children's Health: Protecting and Preparing Our Youngest Climate change is expected to bring increased frequency and intensity of rainstorms, snowstorms, heat waves, and other extreme weather events. Numerous studies indicate climate change is already contributing to a greater overall burden of disease. A new review uses a children's health framework to summarize the latest data on the projected increasing burden of climate change-related disease for children. The authors also discuss prevention strategies they believe should be incorporated into public health programs. www.eoearth.org/article/Climate_Change_and_Children%E2%80%99s_Health?topic=49473 ehp03.niehs.nih.gov/article/fetchArticle.action?articleURI=info%3Adoi%2F10.1289%2Fehp.1002233 Climate Change, Weather Extremes, and U.S. Infrastructure • Tough Engineering Problems Ahead Without Action to Sharply Slow Global Warming Last month's publication in Nature (http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110216/full/470316a.html <http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110216/full/470316a.html> ) of two scientific studies linking climate change to increased extreme precipitation events and flooding offers a chance to reflect on a significant emerging challenge for the U.S. economy. Put simply, the technological infrastructure of the United States was designed to operate within a particular range of climatic parameters, and the climatic conditions within which these infrastructures now operate are moving outside of that range with greater frequency. As climatic changes grow, close attention will be needed to adapt engineered systems for water, energy, transportation, manufacturing, agriculture, coastlines, and other fields to new climates... www.scienceprogress.org/2011/03/climate-change-weather-extremes-and-u-s-infrastructure/print/ Climate Change News • USGS Seeks Comments on Plan for Research on Climate Change Impacts on Fresh Water. The U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) is seeking public comment through April 22 on a draft report titled Strengthening the Scientific Understanding of Climate Change Impacts on Freshwater Resources of the United States (http://app.aaas-science.org/e/er.aspx?s=1906&lid=1876&elq=60b196045b944222998e2699f2ff617a The report reviews key issues related to freshwater resource data and climate change and identifies next steps to improve the nation's capacity to detect and predict changes in freshwater resources that are likely to result from a changing climate. More information: edocket.access.gpo.gov/2011/2011-7615.htm Recent Newsletters • The UK Climate Impacts Programme (UKCIP) April 2011 newsletter can be viewed online at www.ukcip.org.uk/news/ <http://www.ukcip.org.uk/news/> o This issue includes: UKCIP Climate Digest ˆ special issue. Climate adaptation e-learning modules from UKCIP. UKCIP collaborates with BSi on new adaptation guide. Vulnerability, social justice and climate change adaptation Adaptation actions plans for Scotland Business sees the silver lining New resource for adaptation decision-makers Have some adaptation CAKE o --- |
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Post by wingedwishes on May 11, 2011 3:35:47 GMT -8
Plenty of articles out there by extremely qualified scientists who argue against man made global warm.... oh wait, since the planet is not warming it is now..... man made climate change. Search for them and you will find them.
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rjb
Full Member
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Post by rjb on May 11, 2011 15:30:50 GMT -8
wingedwishes:
I couldn't find any! Give me a hint. Extremely qualified means they are actively researching and publishing a few papers in peer-reviewed literature every year on the subject of global climate. Maybe 10 or more important papers in the last 5 years. Give us a couple of names please.
Thanks,
Rick
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Post by wingedwishes on May 12, 2011 1:06:40 GMT -8
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Post by wollastoni on May 12, 2011 4:14:48 GMT -8
Deforestation, CO2 production... of course man is responsible for a part of global warming. And of course global warming will have very hard effect on our economy, way of life, diodiversity and so on... But my main concern is the overexploitation of Earth ressources (oil, minerals, food, water...) to feed more and more humans. When there will be not enough ressources for more and more humans... Earth will look like hell. Just look at world population growth in only one century... Attachments:
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Post by starlightcriminal on May 12, 2011 7:37:29 GMT -8
It's not a question, just whether or not you are informed about it. It's much like evolution. People who think you can "believe" it or not clearly have not bothered to investigate. These topics are not up for debate except for by those who either don't know or who have a hidden agenda (even if it's just that you can't take the embarrassment of parking your SUV next to everyone else's Prius). It's a shame in the modern era that Science at large is still vilified by politics and religion as though they are mutually exclusive. From history we should all be acutely aware of the power of ignorance. A population that doesn't have enough information to make intelligent decisions (either by choice or design) is very easy to control. With all the facts available, I wonder why we have to still debate over global warming instead of over the validity of multinational oil corporations and the damages their unscrupulous practices cause, both environmentally and socially. And of course it isn't just limited to the oil industry... isn't there a thread somewhere about Mansanto? Just because you may be religious or politically inclined or drive a Hummer doesn't mean you can't allow yourself to understand reality too- there are plenty of big-car driving scientists who go to church every Sunday, but if they have any credibility at all they also go to work Monday through Friday knowing the why the trip is so much more expensive these days and what the greater implications are. wingedwishes: National Geographic is not considered a "Scholarly" resource- it's like quoting the Discovery Channel (the two are in fact connected...). Try using those references and the like for an NSF proposal, no one will believe you before they even start to read. If you can't find a source that other people have immediate respect for, well, then there's likely a problem with the argument. No one will put their name on it for a reason. How about anything from: journals.ametsoc.org/You won't find any information supporting the claim that global warming is unrelated to human activities there. Even the very prestigious Nature (NPG) has a new journal dedicated solely to the topic. Also, notice the references cited by your links- if you check them out, the scant few they are, most (of those which might be considered scholarly) actually are concluding the exact opposite thing, they have just been misused to lend credence to an argument which they actually do not support- some even have response letters to this end. It's a common trick with this topic specifically. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2011 10:08:39 GMT -8
I'm not a scholarly source but it doesnt take a professor to see that if things carry on the way they are then were f****d. Here in England we are turning the place into a concrete jungle so fast its frightening, what did I learn about biology at school...........ah yes, plants breathe in carbon dioxide and give out oxygen, well over here there are precious few left, it wont get any better.
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Post by wingedwishes on May 12, 2011 13:20:56 GMT -8
And Starlightciminal you have walked into the "trap." There are links there showing how those who have tried to show otherwise have been silenced. An even more common trick. If you can prevent those who disagree by threats or bully them, you can cotrol your own point of view. There once was far and away more carbon in the air before people. The climate \gate scandal did not seem to lessen respect.
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Post by wingedwishes on May 12, 2011 13:32:01 GMT -8
From the National Snow and Ice Data Center, University of Colorado
Antarctic Sea Ice for March 1980 and 2010
Extent Concentration 2010
4.0 million sq km 2.6 million sq km
If the sea is warmer........is this what should happen?
1980
3.5 million sq km 2.0 million sq km
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Post by wingedwishes on May 12, 2011 13:40:34 GMT -8
Myth 1 Average global temperature (AGT) has increased over the last few years.
Fact 1 Within error bounds, AGT has not increased since 1995 and has declined since 2002, despite an increase in
atmospheric CO2 of 8% since 1995
Myth AGT was relatively unchanging in pre-industrial times, has sky-rocketed since 1900, and will increase by several degrees
more over the next 100 years (the Mann, Bradley & Hughes "hockey stick" curve and its computer extrapolation).
Facts The Mann et al. curve has been exposed as a statistical contrivance. There is no convincing evidence that past climate was unchanging, nor that 20th century changes in AGT were unusual, nor that dangerous human warming is underway.
Bob Carter is qualified and wrote this.
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Post by wingedwishes on May 12, 2011 13:45:06 GMT -8
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rjb
Full Member
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Post by rjb on May 12, 2011 14:00:51 GMT -8
But Wingedwishes, I'm an American scientist with a PhD and I'm not qualified. I've never published anything on global climate. You need a detailed publication list to evaluate if anyone is qualified. Otherwise it is just dumb opinion.
I was just remembering, isn't this one of those topics that causes Clark a lot of unhappiness. It seems we can't talk about it without starting a big fight. Religion and politics get dragged in and we're back to insults. I'll try to stay out- anyway I have to go to LA and may as well visit the Bug Fair while I'm there!
Rick
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