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Post by exoticimports on Jul 16, 2020 8:24:56 GMT -8
At the time, I offered to front the money for a return in order to overcome an unnecessary obstacle to end the impasse and drama.
That impasse had been achieved without my involvement.
If what I read is correct, that the package was correctly addressed for return, but also further complicated with contradictory instructions, then both parties have erred, beyond the failed communications, but in fact in action.
What truly disappoints me is what psychologists refer to as The Cycle of Conflict. That is, a lack of interest in resolving the conflict, instead returning to and reiterating the conflict from the start, instead of addressing the step at hand. As a recovering engineer, I compartmentalize and break problem resolution into step-by-step activities, always seeking to move forward, never backward. Call me arrogant, but to my perspective, playing the Cycle of Conflict is immature, uncivilized, and illogical.
I want no further part of this drama. Good luck to both of you.
Chuck
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Post by kevinkk on Jul 16, 2020 8:59:17 GMT -8
At the time, I offered to front the money for a return in order to overcome an unnecessary obstacle to end the impasse and drama. That impasse had been achieved without my involvement. If what I read is correct, that the package was correctly addressed for return, but also further complicated with contradictory instructions, then both parties have erred, beyond the failed communications, but in fact in action. What truly disappoints me is what psychologists refer to as The Cycle of Conflict. That is, a lack of interest in resolving the conflict, instead returning to and reiterating the conflict from the start, instead of addressing the step at hand. As a recovering engineer, I compartmentalize and break problem resolution into step-by-step activities, always seeking to move forward, never backward. Call me arrogant, but to my perspective, playing the Cycle of Conflict is immature, uncivilized, and illogical. I want no further part of this drama. Good luck to both of you. Chuck Recovering engineer..I think I've heard that one before. I think you have this one pretty well diagnosed. I thought we'd heard the last of this one a few weeks ago, I realize there are values at stake, monetary and otherwise, but it's really close to trolling, I fight the urge to argue with people on the internet, at least they're not my neighbors.. |
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Post by boghaunter1 on Jul 16, 2020 9:22:06 GMT -8
Please pay up L.K.. Chuck has bowed out. At this point get the money to me in any quick way you can. ONLY after the money is in my bank account can this "travesty" of a thread be deleted... your play.
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Post by skandinavisk on Jul 16, 2020 14:24:24 GMT -8
I am a man of Faith, and I will pray for you. Another good reason for being agnostic I guess. Talking about doing good and correct, while effectively doing the opposite. Words are easy and in real life only action counts for anything. The world doesn't need prayers. It needs action. This has also been argued elsewhere here, in other threads. Jan |
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Post by joachim on Jul 16, 2020 15:20:37 GMT -8
yes, my father once in a cafe said to the owner that thee coffee is terribble. " I made that this way since 30 years". Well then your coffee was bad sll the 30 years. in other worde, for the more educated people: Hic Rhodus, hic salta
Anyway there was o reason to say somebody ia thhief as we are all humans and may make mistakes.
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Post by wingedwishes on Jul 16, 2020 15:39:56 GMT -8
How long after the first unit was reported not working were they sent back?
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Post by wingedwishes on Jul 16, 2020 16:18:08 GMT -8
Jan, I assume you know, perhaps i assume incorrectly, that praying is an action. It is just not the action you have your faith in or value. True - Logic for another thread.
I believe I understand the frustration each are experiencing. Each has made conclusions through the lens of self. There are posts by some to help. Some of you guys though are posting as if appearing to carry cattle prods (I admit I used one).
Leptraps: I'd get ticked off too if mail got returned.
Boghaunter: I'd have been ticked off from the constant repetitious impugning and demands.
Both of you want and neither will get what you require or at least in the demanded methods. How far it will go before this is realized and the path is changed is unknown. I have 'faith' in the admins to know when to step in.
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Post by boghaunter1 on Jul 16, 2020 16:22:56 GMT -8
1st defective unit mailed 18 May & rec'd 06 June. 2nd defective unit shipped 08 June & rec'd 23 June. Both defective units shipped back together 29 June. Both units arrived in Ohio 13 July & went unclaimed. Delay in period 23-29 June I tried to convince L.K., on this forum, to send me funds to ship both defective units back together...unsuccessfully... I finally gave in pure frustration & broke down 29 June & pd. $105.63 CAD (=$77.00 USD) to ship both items back to L.K.. Time between arrival & return of 1st unit 06-29 June = 23 days Time between arrival & return of 2nd unit 23-29 June = 6 days.
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Post by kevinkk on Jul 16, 2020 17:05:58 GMT -8
I am a man of Faith, and I will pray for you. Another good reason for being agnostic I guess. Talking about doing good and correct, while effectively doing the opposite. Words are easy and in real life only action counts for anything. The world doesn't need prayers. It needs action. This has also been argued elsewhere here, in other threads. Jan I'm going to agree a little bit with skandinavisk. I'm a tradesman, or tradesperson if you prefer, one time I had a customer who claimed he was honest because he went to church. He misrepresented a rental property and there was a lawsuit over it, a lawsuit he tried to get me involved in, I declined his offer to appear in court. I'm sure I've heard something about the last refuge... that man claiming he was honest simply because he went to church is an irony not lost on me, he was wrong, and I couldn't have said anything different in his court case. |
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Post by wingedwishes on Jul 16, 2020 17:13:27 GMT -8
1st defective unit mailed 18 May & rec'd 06 June. 2nd defective unit shipped 08 June & rec'd 23 June. Both defective units shipped back together 29 June. Both units arrived in Ohio 13 July & went unclaimed. Delay in period 23-29 June I tried to convince L.K., on this forum, to send me funds to ship both defective units back together...unsuccessfully... I finally gave in pure frustration & broke down 29 June & pd. $105.63 CAD (=$77.00 USD) to ship both items back to L.K.. Time between arrival & return of 1st unit 06-29 June = 23 days Time between arrival & return of 2nd unit 23-29 June = 6 days. Thank you. This helped me understand better. |
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Post by exoticimports on Jul 17, 2020 3:32:43 GMT -8
J I have 'faith' in the admins to know when to step in. If "the admins" are smart, they will stay out of this. It is not their job to negotiate or interfere in commerce. It's clear that both parties have erred, and both parties continue to sling mud. Let them put on their big boy pants and work it out. Chuck |
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Post by boghaunter1 on Jul 17, 2020 7:02:07 GMT -8
I have done everything in my power to bring this "circle of conflict" to an end... including trying to return his defective items at my own expense. What has Koehn done to try to bring this "travesty" to and end?? ANSWER...ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
How do you negotiate with a man who on this very thread, at 8:28pm, on 15 July (just 2 days ago), posted this, "Just keep it all. I do not want it back. I will no longer respond to your emails & posts. And if you send anything back I will refuse it & the USPS will ship it back to you."??
It is completely obvious Koehn has NEVER had any intentions to refund my money...EVER... This is more than a simple commerce problem. Koehn has slandered me personally, online, by calling me out as a THIEF, with ZERO evidence of any criminal wrongdoing on my part. If he is truly the bigger man he would immediately refund my money & issue me a personal apology right here on this forum. Of course...this will never happen. I'm at a complete deadend/deadlock... as Trehopr1 said, you can't move a mountain.
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Post by exoticimports on Jul 17, 2020 7:21:04 GMT -8
Did you or did you not write “return to sender” on a box with you being clearly identified as the sender?
This has passed into the absurd, with neither party willing to admit error. Sounds like a bad divorce!
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Post by boghaunter1 on Jul 17, 2020 8:02:52 GMT -8
I wrote "Return to sender for Refund".
From my point of view... I'm a Canadian, in a neibouring/foreign country, returning defective items to an American in the U.S.... why would I want the defective items returned to me... for Refund?? If the USPS/Koehn/yourself misinterperated my message so be it. L.K. also had it within his power to reroute the package (as you instructed him). This is, at this point, a completely irrelevant issue. By Koehn's own words quoted above it is readily apparent that if even if I would be stupid enough to resend the package back to him a 2nd time (with Return to L.C. Koehn for Refund written on it), again at my own expense.. he will yet again reject it. Again he has never EVER had any intentions to refund my money.
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Post by trehopr1 on Jul 17, 2020 11:56:41 GMT -8
I am willing to go "out on a limb" here to see resolution to this matter. If Leroy is willing to send me his cashiers check (via mail) and made out properly to you John I will immediately forward the envelope on to you at your address. I will place it in a larger envelope from my home address and then on to your address. When I receive Leroy's envelope I will photograph it and message the photo to your phone or email (just so you know I positively received it). Monetarily speaking this should end the matter.
Of coarse, you really don't need me here but, maybe Leroy just prefers the use of cashier checks (for returns) or maybe wants no personal (direct) contact (via paypal or mail-mail) with you John.
Either way, it sounds like he is willing to re-pay your full refund but, wants to go thru an intermediary. Leroy's envelope goes from (Ohio) to (Illinois) and on up to (Canada). He has indicated he does not want the lights back so those are now a dead issue...
If this sounds fine to both of you I will PM my address to each of you. I should get Leroy's envelope within a couple days of his sending and I will forward it the very next day. Don't know what else to say at this point. Just trying to be helpful in some small way.
I suppose one caveat about this deal should be that once the check is received and hopefully (with the proper numbers) than nothing more will be said here on the forum of this matter. He has mentioned that even if he pays up he expects 3 more messages about him. So, we wouldn't want him to be right about that...
My Best Regards to both of you and let me know something even if you do not want me involved at all.
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