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Post by trehopr1 on Sept 12, 2021 20:34:57 GMT -8
I concur with lordpandarus.
A bit too risky (given their general cost) to bother with.
But, my compliments on your ability to work with these.
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Post by jshuey on Sept 13, 2021 5:12:57 GMT -8
Is anyone else like me in this respect? I love collecting butterflies, so long as they're wild-caught. But these hand-reared hybrids, gorgeous as they are, just don't interest me. It'd be like collecting farm animals to collect these, to me. I kinda have the same problem with reared birdwings; I'd treasure an old somewhat flightworn specimen more that I ever would a mint perfect reared bug. Chacun a son gout, I guess... Cheers, jh I'm right there with you John. I'd rather experience the bugs in the field versus searching for cute bugs on eBay... Life is short - get outside! John |
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Post by jhyatt on Sept 13, 2021 6:33:38 GMT -8
Jshuey,
I guess we're both pretty far along on the "scientific collector" spectrum, as opposed to the aesthetic direction. I'm often more interested in the data on a specimen than I am in the physical condition of the bug. Good data can be hard to come by if one is buying exotics, but at least I achieve an economy by not requiring perfect material!
jh
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Post by yorky on Sept 13, 2021 8:04:49 GMT -8
Jshuey, I guess we're both pretty far along on the "scientific collector" spectrum, as opposed to the aesthetic direction. I'm often more interested in the data on a specimen than I am in the physical condition of the bug. Good data can be hard to come by if one is buying exotics, but at least I achieve an economy by not requiring perfect material! jh As I've explained before, my collection is split into 4 well defined segments. Exotics, historic British, an expansive British and European collection and a collection that is solely comprised of material that I have caught or bred myself. I fail to see how one cannot do both, collect for aesthetic AND scientific reasons. I too prize data, especially where I control it. I would wager that 3 parts of my collection has equal if not more data accompanied by field notes than any other out there in private hands as I am meticulous about it. If people want to obtain their specimens by field work alone that's great but limited in it's scope. I find it rather dismissive and arrogant, even if it wasn't meant to be to say "I think you and I are further along the scientific spectrum than these beginners ". I would stack my entomological knowledge against anybody that I know while I accept that there are those more knowledgeable in specialist areas. Entomology is a subject so vast that there is room for all kinds of collectors, scientific, aesthetic or both and how one goes about it is entirely up to the individual. i |
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Post by jhyatt on Sept 13, 2021 8:38:20 GMT -8
Yorky,
Sorry if you thought my comments were dismissive or arrogant - I certainly did not intend that. But I don't see anything wrong, dismissive, or arrogant in having a collection that's limited in scope.
I do know people who collect "anything with 6 legs that they can stick a pin through", but that sort of unlimited-scope collecting is, I think, fairly rare. Limiting a collection to material that's wild-caught and has detailed data is just a matter of taste or interest. You're exactly right that "Entomology is a subject so vast that there is room for all kinds of collectors, scientific, aesthetic or both and how one goes about it is entirely up to the individual."
jh
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Post by jshuey on Sept 13, 2021 8:48:02 GMT -8
Jshuey, I guess we're both pretty far along on the "scientific collector" spectrum, as opposed to the aesthetic direction. I'm often more interested in the data on a specimen than I am in the physical condition of the bug. Good data can be hard to come by if one is buying exotics, but at least I achieve an economy by not requiring perfect material! jh John! That's exactly how I think. Here is the extreme example of such a bug - one of my greatest prizes. (a top 10 specimen out of a 350 drawer collection) Based on the literature, this one only gets as far north at Costa Rica where it is rare and found in lowland swamps. But here it is, from Belize near the highest point in the country (probably a kilometer or less from my avatar photo). I fished it out of the preservative pan below a flight intercept trap that was otherwise filled with beetles, flies and bees. The only reported specimen north of Costa Rica, several hundred miles north of its known range, and from a habitat that no one has ever talked about. It's all about the data baby...., because it certainly is not about the beauty of this particular specimen! John  |
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Post by yorky on Sept 13, 2021 10:33:55 GMT -8
 Just to show that I'm not exclusively a stamp collector here are 3 specimens of the extremely local Thaleropis ionia from Armenia which are part of my reference collection, a stamp collector would turn their nose up at specimens in such a state but they have comprehensive collecting data and A1 specimens are like rocking horse dung, they are just as prized as any £500 showpiece. |
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Post by yorky on Sept 13, 2021 10:53:46 GMT -8
 4 females of the super rare Euphaedra francina, none very good but again not in great condition, A1 quality these would cost you a mortgage to buy but they all have comprehensive data. |
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Post by yorky on Sept 13, 2021 10:56:30 GMT -8
 Males are even worse but the bottom specimen is an abberation, so you see some of us collect both A1 bred off the Internet and far from perfect specimens at the same time, sometimes there is no other way to fill gaps and get as complete a reference collection as possible. |
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Post by nomihoudai on Sept 13, 2021 13:22:49 GMT -8
I was thinking about something similar recently and I will go ahead and post in this topic.
There is many reasons why people collect. Depending on ones motivation some of these can subjectively be "better" or "worse". I've been on this website for a substantial part of my life and I have collected for many different reasons. I have been paid to do faunal inventories and I collected Microlepidoptera in the tropics hunting for new species. A scientific collection is usually due to the effort involved a close to professional engagement. BUT, many people, myself included, simply do not have the time that is required to do that. It's not just about going into the field, but everything that follows after.
Insects have an incredibly diversity of colors and shape and beauty for those interested in colors and patterns. I hope that I will find a little bit of time to create a new collection, but this time I will probably restrict myself to a few "stamps" and showy ones. Some of them self-collected, some of them not.
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On the topic, it has been incredible to see what kind of diversity people came up with in their breeding efforts. When I started out all of this was unheard, the only comparison being golden birdwings, but they were done way before I was born. I have never come across them in person.
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Post by jhyatt on Sept 14, 2021 5:57:18 GMT -8
View AttachmentJust to show that I'm not exclusively a stamp collector here are 3 specimens of the extremely local Thaleropis ionia from Armenia which are part of my reference collection, a stamp collector would turn their nose up at specimens in such a state but they have comprehensive collecting data and A1 specimens are like rocking horse dung, they are just as prized as any £500 showpiece. Nice! That female at the bottom of the column makes me commit the sin of envy. Armenian material is very hard to come by, in my experience. jh |
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Post by yorky on Sept 14, 2021 6:36:56 GMT -8
View AttachmentJust to show that I'm not exclusively a stamp collector here are 3 specimens of the extremely local Thaleropis ionia from Armenia which are part of my reference collection, a stamp collector would turn their nose up at specimens in such a state but they have comprehensive collecting data and A1 specimens are like rocking horse dung, they are just as prized as any £500 showpiece. Nice! That female at the bottom of the column makes me commit the sin of envy. Armenian material is very hard to come by, in my experience. jh All 3 cost the grand total of $1 |
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