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Post by beetlehorn on Jan 14, 2019 4:53:54 GMT -8
The last post got me thinking on the matter of how a wall along our southern border would impact certain insect populations there. I went collecting in Santa Cruz county Arizona a few years ago where several species we encountered are at the very northern end of their range in southern Arizona. Moths like Sphingicampa montana, Sphingicampa raspa, and Rothschildia cincta come to mind. Then there is the seasonal influx of butterflies from Mexico that occurs mostly in September and October. In other states like New Mexico and Texas there are also certain species that could be impacted. Then again most of the species of concern might be well enough established that the effect of a barrier such as the proposed border wall, would either be minimal, or not worth considering. I am merely speculating at the possibility of an effect on conservation. Here is a photo I took of a view across the border from Harshaw Arizona into Mexico on the way to Nogales.  |
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Post by exoticimports on Jan 14, 2019 8:12:55 GMT -8
civil war. I certainly hope this will not come true, because a war due to mere differences of opinion is just wrong. A civil war will never be over difference of opinion. It's when that opinion is pushed on others in the form of control. The US Civil War (The War of Northern Aggression) wasn't about a difference in opinion about slavery, it was about control. Not a one of the southern states voted for Lincoln. Simply put, the position of the southern states more closely reflected those concepts upon which the country was founded- and an overpowering federal government wasn't part of that. The southern states believed that the Kansas slavery question was to be left to the state, not the federal government. All southern states did not want ungovernable federal forts on state territory. The northern states- in the form of federal government- disagreed and to prove their point was willing to go to war at the cost of a half million American lives. The politicians have divvied up topics of interest to divide the voters. All politicians do that, and the funny (well, ironic, not funny) thing is comparing USA to other countries those "topics" of division aren't the same in all countries. If one really thinks about it (and forgets the foundation of AFL/CIO) then AFL/CIO would support ALL rights, not a select few. And so would the government. Likewise, one would think the urban poor would smarten up and switch sides since their situation hasn't improved under Democrat leadership. But it's all about the money and power, which is used to influence and divide voters. Would the right be so incensed about a wall and immigration if many of those unfettered immigrants are a significant cause of crime? Would they care if criminal illegals were captured and prosecuted instead of being turned loose? Really! How hard would it be to open immigration but have them vetted? Under Obama it could have been done- but wasn't. Why? Why didn't the Dems do just that? MONEY. There is money and power resulting from creating conflict and chaos. Who should care about "good people" immigration? The cost of supporting them aside, it's the urban poor who lose jobs to them, not me. No, I don't like the cost, and more than the cost of supporting the urban poor. At least with immigrants they tend to work their tails off to get ahead- and my share of support will (should) not increase, and should be repaid by an influx of low cost manpower and new insights. The urban poor should care, but they've settled into a crappy position of barely surviving, but being able to do it on government support- and being satisfied that's the way it will be. Thanks, politicians! What we have now is not a case of preparation for civil war, it's civil decay. When huge areas such as Northern California and Upstate New York wish they could break away, that's serious discord. And while they cannot, and will be saddled with control from afar, it is reflected in their work, their volunteerism, their wish to be part of a healthy community. They bail out if they can and go somewhere less oppressive and/or less costly- either way, a better life experience. This only shifts populations and wealth, it doesn't improve the overall US economy or quality of life. And with it, comes a hatred of and/or push against the regime under which they are or were suffering. That's decay. You can thank the politicians and power brokers for this mess. Every day it gets harder to clean up. |
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Post by exoticimports on Jan 14, 2019 8:16:12 GMT -8
All thoughts aside, I still want to see the wall being built! Every day China is growing bigger and better! What better way to top China then to top the Great Wall? OK, so there's a joke. And, with all deference to my Latino friends, whom I love (and who laugh at this), I will caveat it with "it's a joke" that shows how stupid all this is. Here we go... How do we know The Wall will work? Easy- the Chinese built a wall, and there are no Mexicans in China! It's so stupid it's funny! |
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Post by joee30 on Jan 14, 2019 10:21:30 GMT -8
All thoughts aside, I still want to see the wall being built! Every day China is growing bigger and better! What better way to top China then to top the Great Wall? OK, so there's a joke. And, with all deference to my Latino friends, whom I love (and who laugh at this), I will caveat it with "it's a joke" that shows how stupid all this is. Here we go... How do we know The Wall will work? Easy- the Chinese built a wall, and there are no Mexicans in China! It's so stupid it's funny! True, but all joking aside, the Mongols sure as heck did, and did some work on China. |
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Post by joee30 on Jan 14, 2019 10:29:46 GMT -8
Screw the wall, a quick missile strike on the homes of Latino unlicensed pharmacy wholesalers followed by a mass excursion and clean up in northern Mexico and arrests of government politicians in DF would be less expensive and effective far longer. No wall no border. The militia can take care of the border which is now bilaterally open to insect collectors and armed carry on both sides of the former border is recognized as a right. Problem solved. Homeland Security can then be retasked to hunt down and eliminate ms13, crips, and all the other ###bags. If they can’t or won’t do it we ask the Michigan Militia To do it. Invite the Mafia to come back and clean up urban areas, it a lot less expensive to let them take a few truckloads of TVs than continue driving urban poverty and crime. Legalize drugs. That would be easier said than done. I can bet there are politicians in our great right wing that have businesses and get money from Mexico. This is why I think this wall idea trump hatched out is bunk! I mean even border agents have smuggled drugs, you have tractor trailers, trains, tunnels, subs, boats, and human mules bringing this crap in. I agree with legalizing em all and hurting the cartels in that way. |
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Post by joee30 on Jan 14, 2019 10:49:23 GMT -8
Well, I watched the madness that was Trumps "address" and all it seemed to me was scapegoating, fearmongering, and a massive temper tantrum. To be honest, it doesn't surprise me one bit, and makes me think less of him as someone "honest". Just his diatribe on how said was was going to stop the cartels from smuggling drugs made me laugh. Last I checked, most of the cartels have more money than he does, and even if the bs wall was built, they will find a way to smuggle it in. As long as there are tweakers and crackheads, and rich cokeheads, they will find a way to bring it in, and get their money. Spot on comment! What is driving these people to walk towards the US? Many have had to leave their countries as they were forced out by criminal drug gangs that effectively run some of these countries - like Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras and large areas of Mexico. Every time a single person is commanded to work as a drug mule or hitman for these drug running gangs, they and their families will be threatened and intimidated with violence, kidnapping, rape and whatever s##t. Whole families will have to flee their country or risk being murdered. In the neighboring country the same gangs will be hunting them and their families, so many push on towards Mexico and the US. So who is driving these drug running gangs? Obviously drug users! No buyers, no suppliers! While hardcore crackheads consume some cocaine, one should not be ignorant of the huge numbers of recreational (not only "rich" users, but the wast middle class too) drug users in USA, Canada and Europe that really drive the drug trade that f##k up the lives of so many people in these central american countries. It is the crappy western, common peoples attitude towards drugs, that they have the right to have a bit of fun in their everyday life, that drive the trade, causing much of the problem of people seeking towards the US, in the first place. These immigrants are a symptom, not a disease. Much of it can be traced back to the days of the US weapons for drugs funding of the Contras in Nicaragua. The commies had to be fought off somehow and as there was no chance the US could throw money directly into that fire, so drug money was largely used to finance US interests. The Netflix series "Narcos: Mexico" depicts it pretty well! Gangs like MS13 and Barrio 18 became the root of most human misery in central america after then. Roughly the US politicians started a bush fire down there and it has been burning along the southern US border ever since, mostly fueled by the drug consumption in the US. Obviously there are lots of other conspiracy theories out there, but if one bother to read on a matter like this from various resources, it could actually be a pretty believable conspiracy theory too. In Europe we hardly ever see any Latinos coming over for dinner. In Europe it is mostly middle eastern people that can walk or sail right into Europe. Many of these people however are not driven by the drug market in Europe, but rather fleeing from religious madness - which most of them are inflicting on themselves by choosing to believe in god-knows-what weird stone age scriptures. Even people that read the same book are fair game from others that interpret it differently. At least it is not Europeans fueling that group of illegal immigrants! And many of them walk across several safe countries to come to a safe country that oftentimes seem to have a number of most useful benefits, especially as compared to some of the countries they already passed through. Maybe life just consist of huge numbers of individual "happenings" with no connection to one another, or they could all be interconnected some how?  Jan Agreed. My big thing regarding the MS-13 issue here in America is that they are a product of like any group that has immigrated here(Jews, Italians, and Irish), that many of these kids would make friends who would take them down the wrong path, and will become criminals. This happens everywhere in the world, and it is nothing new. The difference between street gangs like MS-13, and the Italian, Irish, or Jewish mobs is that they are more of a confederation of closely knit groups of people than a big organization. Now, that is here in the states, in those countries where these kids fled civil wars in the 70's and 80's, thay have established pretty much a cartel of their own. They are backed by the cartels as they smuggle in the dope through Central America into Mexico. At the same time, they are just like the cartels in Mexico, and use brutality and murder to send their message loud and clear. I just feel that here in America, it is easier to have an idiot pundit like Sean Hannity paint those folks trying to escape the madness of the cartels and gangs as "criminals", and having a good chunk of his audience actually believe it, and get them riled up. I don't agree with illegal immigration, but this issue is bigger than trumps wall. I feel that all that is happening at the present moment, between his temper tantrums and democrats not giving in to his tantrums, the only people that will suffer are those who are not getting paid to do their jobs, and work for the government. They should repair and upgrade what is there, and put up some hi tech surveillance. Put more boots on the ground to catch people sneaking in, and also work on fixing the actual policies. Unless we are willing to step in, and go into Mexico and get rid of the cartels, and the gangs in Central America militarily, then there should be a way for these people to get in here the "right way" rather than having to wait many years, and deal with bureaucratic red tape. Maybe making work visas easier to acquire, and economical? |
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Post by joee30 on Jan 14, 2019 10:52:22 GMT -8
Why do you think that those at "the top" do so little to stop the multi billion dollar drug industry, it's not rocket science, they are all in it together, all creaming in the profits, sure they will make all the right noises but in the end they are too greedy to stop the gravy train, Sodom and Gomorrah had nothing on the modern world. Who suffers? Politicians? Royalty? Finance giants?Captains of industry? No the weakest, poorest and most vulnerable in society, always have always will. Think the rich, much like the poor, also partake in a fair amount of debauchery, and are hypocritical about it. I can imagine trump in his younger years doing coke. I mean there is a rumor flying around that he snorts Adderall. If that is true, it would make perfect sense why he sometimes rambles. |
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Post by papilio28570 on Jan 14, 2019 18:53:16 GMT -8
How does one respond to rumor, falsehoods, conjecture, innuendo, hate, ignorance, political bias and more? You don't!
James Carville had coined "It's the economy, Stupid!" as a campaign strategy for Bill Clinton who went on to make George Bush a one term president.
Trump will win re-election in a landslide unless the US economy goes south.
I favor the wall. Ask Israel if one works. You don't think there is a problem at the US southern border? The following is from a fact-check article regarding President Trump's speech: (Begin quote)
"“Tonight I am speaking to you because there is a growing humanitarian and security crisis at our southern border.”
By any available measure, there is no new security crisis at the border.
Apprehensions of people trying to cross the southern border peaked most recently at 1.6 million in 2000 and have been in decline since, falling to just under 400,000 in fiscal 2018. The decline is partly because of technology upgrades; tougher penalties in the wake of the 9/11 terrorist attacks; a decline in migration rates from Mexico; and a sharp increase in the number of Border Patrol officers. The fiscal 2018 number was up from just over 300,000 apprehensions at the U.S.-Mexico border for fiscal 2017, the lowest level in more than 45 years." (End quote)
Do the math...if 300,000 in one year is the lowest in 45 years, then well over 13,500,000 were apprehended. According to Princeton University sociologist Douglas Massey, co-director of the Mexican Migration Project, a collaboration among a few universities to track migration, the probability of apprehension for an undocumented immigrant crossing the border has never risen above a 40 percent chance since 1965. In 2016 (the most recent year with data) it was about 20 percent.
Do the math again...if 300,000/year (the lowest in 45 years) represents 40% apprehension rate of illegals at the southern border, then those that did not get caught equates to a low figure of 20,250,000 over the same 45 years period. That alone is almost 7% of the US population and some authors put it closer to 12%
So, yes, there is a very major problem on the US southern border. Want to discuss the crime statistics resulting from illegals in the US? According to Snopes.com, between August 1955 and April 2010, 25,064 undocumented immigrants had been arrested for homicide. An average 557 killings a year of US citizens by illegals is what is immoral if allowed to continue. I won't even get into rapes and sexual assaults.
Build the wall.
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Post by exoticimports on Jan 15, 2019 9:36:20 GMT -8
Migration has been a key behavior of mankind from the beginning. Man (and many animals) will always try to go where there is a perception of improvement.
From a species survivability perspective, it's clear that the human population is into a precarious position, awaiting a hiccup and crash. Is S13 "bad"? From the species perspective, S13 may actually be good, decreasing the population both directly and indirectly. Though statistically neither S13 nor killer immigrants are even a blip on the radar; sober drivers kill a thousand times the people that both groups combined do.
Many in USA want to keep out the foreigner hoards, as did the Chinese and Romans. From a species perspective, does any of it make any difference?
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Post by fishnbugz on Jan 15, 2019 10:39:38 GMT -8
More than half the population lives on less than 30K per year. The economy is in collapse for these folks right now. The stock market also showed negative growth for 2018. If it's the economy stupid, then Bonespurs isn't gonna get re-elected.
For 20 years I actually worked a job that hired all sorts of illegal immigrants, from Guatemala and Mexico mostly; they didn't inspire fear in me, their avg height is about 5 foot 2. I think the true criminals were the people in human resources that knowingly and repeatedly hired the same people under different names and SS#'s. Work/a job was the incentive that brought them here illegally in the first place, and the company used those unfortunates to depress wages for the whole company. Some were my friends, and I heard their stories of what it was like back in Guatemala. They described death squads, seeing dead people as children, and in one friend's case their father being taken from their home in the night and never seen again. All this "crisis" was happening more than a decade ago and it's decreased in that time, right up until about 10 days before the mid-term when Chump deployed troops to the border in an obvious stunt to sway stupid-people votes.
You might really buy Humpty's rhetoric- but I ain't concerned in the least that myself, my wife, daughter or granddaughter have anything to fear from a 5 foot 2 starving midget on foot. E-verify would dry up the illegal's job market immediately; a wall may re-route or delay 'em, but it isn't gonna stop much and when they get up here by me they'll have jobs waiting for them and nobody punished for hiring them. Meanwhile we have a tent city of 30,000 people in LA, where there actually is a wall or fence on the border. PS- They've found three tunnels under that fence in just the last month.
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Post by beetlehorn on Jan 15, 2019 10:40:03 GMT -8
See it as you want to. I see illegal immigration as a huge problem, that is in a pile of many more huge problems here in the US. Things will keep on building up to the point where nobody will know a way out, and then there will be an economic collapse in such a giant proportion that it will change everything in society. Nearly 75% of illegals from Mexico get government assistance by way of wellfare, foodstamps,etc. They-(the government) know that they are here illegally, and yet pay them with our tax dollars.....insanity pure and simple. I am not rich by any means, but a chunk of what I pay in to taxes goes to someone that is here illegally, and so do you if you are an American. Anything (a barrier, or wall) that will slow the flood of people coming in illegally would be worth the effort in my opinion.
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Post by exoticimports on Jan 15, 2019 11:07:50 GMT -8
More than half the population lives on less than 30K per year. The economy is in collapse for these folks right now. The stock market also showed negative growth for 2018. 99% of the people of Solomon Islands have individual incomes under $30,000. WELL under. And they don't care about the stock market because they're not invested. Yet they don't feel impoverished. So where lies the difference? TVs? Fast food? I work ~60 hours a week. At $12/hour that's $37,440. If mom and dad both work (and why not?) that's $74,880 per annum. So where is the problem? Besides which for "fun" I flip stuff; I published a book. That's more income. The problem isn't opportunity, it's motivation. How much of LA's 30,000 homeless are a result of drugs flowing in over an unprotected border? From failed economic and cultural left-wing economic policies? |
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Post by fishnbugz on Jan 15, 2019 12:38:20 GMT -8
You've gotta show me examples before I'm gonna believe 75% of illegal Mexicans are getting ANY public assistance. They don't roll out the red carpet when you apply for this stuff- they find a reason, any reason, and they deny you. Being illegal makes it harder, not easier. Actually makes it impossible, in every state I'm familiar with. But I'm guessing you can't tell the difference between illegal and legal migrants when they're standing right in front of you, I sure can't...
I'm thousands of miles from LA's homeless, but am guessing there are about 30,000 individual reasons. High cost of housing has quite a bit to do with it, physical or mental illness, drugs, bad luck, heck maybe they just like the weather. I don't believe addressing it indirectly with a wall is gonna fix anything, for sure.
I don't think anything that happens in the Solomon Islands has anything to do with the discussion here, but you're not gonna be convinced different by anything I say. I can tell you most people in the US are poor, and rather than see a problem you tell me that's how you like it and they should do like you do?
Donnie bankrupted himself over and over, despite being handed 400 million plus by his daddy. He actually didn't crawl out of bankruptcy for good until he filled his properties with russian mobsters. He stands accused of failure to pay contractors in thousands of lawsuits from before when he took office. He hides his tax returns and lied to us about it. He had bonespurs while my dad and uncles were earning honors for valour in Vietnam and getting shot. He's in it for himself and his empire, and he'll tell you any old lie if you'll buy it. He tells you anyone critical of him is the enemy of the people, then guys from your camp start sending them pipe bombs. But you guys think it's immigrants and leftists that are scary!
Any of you heard of Richard Ojeda? Dem running for President in 2020, extremely anti-corruption. I watched an interview last week where he said if the status quo continues in this country the dirt poor are gonna eat the filthy rich. Good Stuff, we'll be cannibals just like the Solomon Islands!
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Post by fishnbugz on Jan 15, 2019 12:46:35 GMT -8
Worst of it is, the illegals are ALREADY here. The wall doesn't stop them. E-verify does.
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Post by beetlehorn on Jan 16, 2019 16:41:11 GMT -8
Here is the latest on border security. It seems that there will be yet another caravan coming from Central America. I have included the link here in case anyone is interested.
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