|
|
Post by fishnbugz on Jan 16, 2019 17:26:04 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post by beetlehorn on Jan 16, 2019 17:40:42 GMT -8
I fail to see the connection of a border wall and this video about a "human drone". Unless this is some kind of diversionary tactic, or perhaps suggesting that illegals would try to cross using one of these contraptions, there is nothing that suggests any relationship between the two. Logically of course, but perhaps this is all some kind of joke to some people.
|
|
|
|
Post by papilio28570 on Jan 16, 2019 20:15:06 GMT -8
1. $14 billion to $22 billion dollars are spent each year on welfare to illegal aliens (that's Billion with a 'B')
2. $7.5 billion dollars are spent each year on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
3. $12 billion dollars are spent each year on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they still cannot speak a word of English. $27 billion dollars are spent each year for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
5. $3 Million Dollars 'PER DAY' is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. That's $1.2 Billion a year.
6. 28% percent of all federal prison inmates are illegal aliens.
7. $190 billion dollars are spent each year on illegal aliens for welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
8. 200 billion dollars per year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
9. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US.
10. During the year 2005, there were 8 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our southern border with as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from other terrorist countries. Over 10,000 of those were middle-eastern terrorists. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin, crack, guns, and marijuana crossed into the U.S. from the southern border.
11. The National Policy Institute, estimates that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion, or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.
12. In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $65 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin, to their families and friends.
13 The dark side of illegal immigration: Nearly one million sex crimes are committed by illegal immigrants in the United States!
Total cost - a whopping $538.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR!
|
|
|
|
Post by Paul K on Jan 16, 2019 20:58:17 GMT -8
Your post makes me want to migrate to US and become illegal immigrant!!! Sounds like heaven.
UPS!!!!!!!!!!
I changed my mind, USFWS sacks!!! Sorry...
|
|
|
|
Post by fishnbugz on Jan 16, 2019 21:30:00 GMT -8
Pap, I don't want to discredit your source but you didn't give one...anyway, we'll just say economic impact would be a better measure than costs. They pay taxes in but can't qualify for most services- and most live in fear of revealing themselves to public authorities.
According to a quick glance at Wikipedia's info, it would seem your source is right wing propaganda. It just doesn't match up. Do you think the one with an agenda could be lying?
|
|
|
|
Post by fishnbugz on Jan 16, 2019 21:35:31 GMT -8
I'm gonna go ahead and break this to you guys.
It will take a good decade to complete the wall and at least 10X the money; if it's already at crisis mode in your mind right now, how are you gonna hold things together for the next decade plus while you wait for them to start stealing land from your fellow americans through eminent domain? This isn't any crisis for americans, other than those denied paychecks in the middle of winter for Trumpski's political stunt. The illegal border crossing numbers are about half what they were in the peak years, and the peak years were back like Clinton/Bush eras. You stay near them nitro pills, because this crisis is about to get a tweetstorm applied to it too!
I'm pretty certain Con Chump's priorities were exactly how they played out. Very first order of business was pay off the porn stars and hide the peepee tapes, and double the membership fees at Moron-lago to $200,000 per year while announcing you'll throw your paltry salary in the trash. Then when he took office, changing that tax structure so he could line his pockets, letting big coal dump waste in the rivers, and change that dumb Obama rule saying crazy people couldn't get a gun. Then sell off national parks, pass dirty air and water act, and send mean tweets to Rosie O'Donnell While golfing with Kim Jong Un and Dennis Rodman. Gotta squeeze in a photo op with Ted Nugent, Kid Rock and Sarah Palin, and White House/McDonald's happy meals with the Nat'l Champs. Right now we're at pretty much his last order of business, locking up the zealot vote with some wall theatrics and more tweeting. He can keep stacking the judicial and making cabinet appointees, but otherwise his agenda is done. The wall isn't gonna be happening this time around, you may need some more nitro after you learn this -but- Comrade Bonespurs now keeps his balls in Nancy's purse...and HER base wants to knock it from her boney hands and stomp on that purse. The Trump train is already off the rails. It's gonna be a tweetstorm, and I can already tell you what it will say(minus the misspellings). One thing I bet it will never include, is a criticism of nepotism.
Human lift capable drones will be available for purchase in about 5 years, but as you can see they are already possible. If that thing can lift a man, it can probably lift a whole family of Guatemalans. Looks to me like it would defeat the wall in about 5 seconds, and it would haul MJ by the bale. You are incorrect if you think a coyote isn't capable of such things as this drone, they'll be able to buy them retail before the wall is complete. I've seen guys use drones to present baits to fish, and then lift the fish and fly it over to them to unhook, they are pretty controllable. It's too bad there won't be a wall. The coyotes could have a lucrative business hopping contraband, probably even while they're cashing construction checks building the dumb thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post by Paul K on Jan 16, 2019 21:38:44 GMT -8
Pap, I don't want to discredit your source but you didn't give one...anyway, we'll just say economic impact would be a better measure than costs. They pay taxes in but can't qualify for most services- and most live in fear of revealing themselves to public authorities. According to a quick glance at Wikipedia's info, it would seem your source is right wing propaganda. It just doesn't match up. Do you think the one with an agenda could be lying? That’s right, people can’t see that...illegal immigration is good for economy, legal refugees are not |
|
|
|
Post by fishnbugz on Jan 16, 2019 22:22:37 GMT -8
Illegal immigration IS good for the rich. They hire and exploit them, they use them to make money. It lowers prices on the consumer end too, but that doesn't matter to the policymakers. They get rich doing this! Don the Con our dear leader himself stands accused of falsifying documents, so in plain english he's accused of knowingly hiring illegals. I see the gears turning, I hope this connects it for you. It might appear I'm for illegal immigrants, when it's more about accountability and putting blame where it belongs. They're just pawns in the game getting exploited by the powers that be. The powers that be go far beyond Conman, I remember many many years ago they criminalized the hiring of immigrants; they just never did enforce it on white-collar criminals.
E-verify forces employers to prove that the applicant/employee's name and Social Sec # is legit. It already exists. But it is only voluntary, not mandatory. Places like that company I spent 20 years at were very obvious violators, I actually knew people who had papers expire, then return under a brand new name, repeatedly. The same HR people doing all the hiring, absolutely no way they didn't know. Anyway the point is, E-verify is an immediate solution that should be implemented right now...but with so much money to make, our rich masters would rather we argue over some stupid ### that has nothing to do with it while they're laughing all the way to the bank. They would have to pay higher wages, and they ain't interested in none of that.
|
|
|
|
Post by fishnbugz on Jan 16, 2019 22:57:24 GMT -8
Pap, I don't want to discredit your source but you didn't give one...anyway, we'll just say economic impact would be a better measure than costs. They pay taxes in but can't qualify for most services- and most live in fear of revealing themselves to public authorities. According to a quick glance at Wikipedia's info, it would seem your source is right wing propaganda. It just doesn't match up. Do you think the one with an agenda could be lying? That’s right, people can’t see that...illegal immigration is good for economy, legal refugees are not I've mentioned E-verify something like 10 times in this thread. Do you understand that E-verify would force illegals out of their illegal jobs and catch them if using false ID info? Suddenly, that virtual carrot of a willing employer who's waiting break the law and hire 'em anyway goes away. Now it's just for the pure joy of raping and murdering and drug running that they'll come hop our imaginary wall, there won't be any legit way to earn a living. They'll have to get papers aligned or they won't be able to work except "under the table". illegal status are forced to take whatever they're payin' from whoever will hire them. They get paid half wage to do the crap jobs that a regular american would take one glance at and say NOPE! Not for 3X the wages would I do that! If you can't see how the man paying the wages would benefit bigtime from illegals, then the wall is the solution for you. Good luck getting it! The point I was trying to make and kinda failed in the quoted above, is that there is a list of Costs and there's a List of Benefits, to anything but in this instance there's an actual Wiki page listing them. The majority of economists seem to think the Benefits outweigh the Costs, according to Wiki not me. According to whatever the unnamed source is, there is an inflated list of Costs and other questionable claims, and there isn't any mention at all of a Benefits list. I call that propaganda, but you could call it purposeful omission or obfuscation of the facts. This is obviously done on purpose to manipulate your opinion. It's pretty common when you know your audience is gonna take you at your word, you activate the anger and you can bypass reason. Edward Bernays was Sigmund Freud's nephew, and he wrote the book on "modern" propaganda and it's various techniques. This is one of the techniques. Once I've ID'd it as propaganda, the whole thing has to be discredited. I'd look for other sources, and those sources must LIST their original sources so I can vet those too. It's unfortunate that we can't just have a straight-up discussion without all the decoding and comparison, but we live in the alternative facts, post-truth reality these days and I don't take anything at face value. The first thing I do when confronted with such info is vet it from the most neutral sites I can, and it should at least be close to the same set of facts we're working with. I got the idea that list was presenting incomplete and inaccurate information, and a simple 5 minute glance to fact-check proved that idea correct. |
|
|
|
Post by beetlehorn on Jan 17, 2019 4:41:56 GMT -8
So perhaps we should be looking more seriously at tactics like E-verify to curb the attraction for illegals to come to the states and get work. Then again it seems to me that the ones that actually want to work are not the problem here. Given the numbers listed on paps post, the ones that are coming in committing serious crimes, and bringing in drugs, as we can all see, are a major problem....even if the numbers were half or a third of what is claimed. So how do you tell the good ones from the bad? The vetting process would really delay (legal) immigration, and if we suddenly force employers to verify legal status and turn down anyone that cannot prove citizenship, the crime rate would go up because they can't earn any money by working, so they'll resort to other means of getting it. I don't believe they would just go back home to Mexico because things didn't work out for them here. So what's the solution? Round up the ones causing trouble (if you can catch them), separate the ones that are trying to make an "honest" living by working for their money, and get them on the path towards legal citizenship? I don't know. Then again if there's nobody left to do the low paying crap jobs, how would this affect us economically?!? Right now we are at a stalemate with the government shutdown. Only time will tell how the wall issue will turn out. One thing for sure, all of this controversy has really focused attention to the issue at hand. Perhaps something good will come of it all, but that is only wishful thinking.
|
|
|
|
Post by exoticimports on Jan 17, 2019 7:16:43 GMT -8
Illegal immigration IS good for the rich. They hire and exploit them, they use them to make money. . Companies use illegal labor regularly. In NY it's the apple farmers, and the sheriff has openly stated he won't chase down illegals; and it's for that reason. I sit on a round table on international business, a guy from CA expressed grave concern that if Trump cuts illegal immigration they won't have people to unload the containers coming from China. So at all levels, illegal labor is a foundation of US business. But what about S13 and other criminals- why not stop them from coming in? Simple: it boosts the left wing voter rolls and keeps them in power. Even those that don't vote support community advocates and other urban agendas that support the left wing. Look at how hard the Dems fight voter ID laws- it's common sense that a voter should prove who they are, but the Dems are against it. The Dems want convicted felons to vote, fighting for that so it boosts their voter role and support base. The ironic part is that they play politics- why not just take it to SCOTUS based on the Bill of Rights? They won't do it because if convicted felons are given the right to vote based on BoR, then convicted felons will also have their right to possess firearms recognized. Like the war on drugs (DEA), the war on guns (ATF), the war on animal trade (USFWS), I wonder how much of Border Patrol activity is purely to grow the organization, empower management, and fatten pockets. Not to question the individual out on the border trying to do the right thing, but I'll bet you if you ask them every one of them has suspicions about higher-ups. It is the way it is because of money. If you think anybody here is going to change anything you're dreaming. May you live in interesting times- well, Americans, you're there. Your grandparents watched USA become a superpower, with a car in every garage and a chicken in every pot, and white picket fences. You get to watch the decay of a superpower due to internal failure (as opposed to war), truly a rare event not seen since USSR fell apart 30 years ago. What a unique opportunity! Chuck |
|
|
|
Post by fishnbugz on Jan 17, 2019 15:04:44 GMT -8
So perhaps we should be looking more seriously at tactics like E-verify to curb the attraction for illegals to come to the states and get work. Then again it seems to me that the ones that actually want to work are not the problem here. Given the numbers listed on paps post, the ones that are coming in committing serious crimes, and bringing in drugs, as we can all see, are a major problem....even if the numbers were half or a third of what is claimed. So how do you tell the good ones from the bad? The vetting process would really delay (legal) immigration, and if we suddenly force employers to verify legal status and turn down anyone that cannot prove citizenship, the crime rate would go up because they can't earn any money by working, so they'll resort to other means of getting it. I don't believe they would just go back home to Mexico because things didn't work out for them here. So what's the solution? Round up the ones causing trouble (if you can catch them), separate the ones that are trying to make an "honest" living by working for their money, and get them on the path towards legal citizenship? I don't know. Then again if there's nobody left to do the low paying crap jobs, how would this affect us economically?!? Right now we are at a stalemate with the government shutdown. Only time will tell how the wall issue will turn out. One thing for sure, all of this controversy has really focused attention to the issue at hand. Perhaps something good will come of it all, but that is only wishful thinking. We should understand that someone is gonna get hurt, with the wall, with E-verify, with most of the proposals out there. We should also understand that we ourselves are the ones getting hurt under the status quo, all the arguments Pap listed are there and while I disagree with showing only half the issue those things are all happening. I'd actually want to see the company, and the individuals hiring, held responsible for their crimes at the place I worked, specifically because it was knowingly breaking a law for profit. E-verify itself only answers the question, "is this employee legal for us to hire"? Behind that you offer paths to legal asylum, work or study visas, expulsion or jail depending on the particulars of each case. Criminals are gonna be criminals, but when you know you're illegal and you have incentive to not attract attention I'm not sure raping and robbing is what you decide to do. There will be plenty of under-the-table cash-only jobs as long as there are people who like to save money, but there simply is no pain-free solution to this problem. Another thing that bears mention in this discussion is our country mass surveilling it's inhabitants. If you are illegal here and you have any sort of social presence, then our Gov't knows about you. If you have a phone or computer, you are being surveilled every time you use it, and so are they. We know about the Hubble space telescope, but there's no reason to be too sure there aren't similar things up there pointing down. When I drive in the city, I can and do point out the cameras I see. In a city the size of Sioux City, Iowa there are probably hundreds of cameras. You cannot enter or leave the city without being filmed. It's not a very big city. The best digital camera technology can recognize your face today, and it's getting more powerful every year. I'd wager that if the powers that be really wanted the things in their rhetoric, then those things would be. I have to think that when they made it the way it is, it's because they wanted it just the way it is. Part of Obama's hope and change, was to increase surveillance and prosecute whistleblowers. In the news today Ronald McDonald told Nancy she can't ride military flights unless she gives his balls back. Wall back? Something like that. He sure is a tough guy! I remember when congress actually put a bill on his desk and he said he'd sign it; but then Mann Coulter and Rush Lamebrain manipulated him into the shutdown. He sure is a stable genius! Representatives Green and Sherman I think, have introduced articles of impeachment 4 times since he took office, with growing support in the House each time. I saw Tom Steyer's Impeachment ads on TV about 20 times last week. In fact there's all sorts of impeachment propaganda out there all the sudden, ever wonder what public opinion they're manufacturing? Do you know what a banana republic actually is? Guatemala and Honduras were the banana republics, so named because the US has been meddling in their politics for about a century, removing any "real" gov't so we could have cheap bananas. Part of the hidden cost of cheap bananas? Immigrants from the banana republics! Very simplified but we are reaping the oats we've sown for a 100 years, and that Edward Bernays dude was part of the propaganda mechanism that turned public opinion on one of those interventions too...simple lies are very effective if you think your Gov't wouldn't lie to you. |
|
|
|
The Wall!
Jan 17, 2019 20:11:43 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by LEPMAN on Jan 17, 2019 20:11:43 GMT -8
Next on CNN： the equadorians have upgraded their caravans and are flying over the wall! |
|
|
|
Post by LEPMAN on Jan 17, 2019 20:29:46 GMT -8
OK, so there's a joke. And, with all deference to my Latino friends, whom I love (and who laugh at this), I will caveat it with "it's a joke" that shows how stupid all this is. Here we go... How do we know The Wall will work? Easy- the Chinese built a wall, and there are no Mexicans in China! It's so stupid it's funny! True, but all joking aside, the Mongols sure as heck did, and did some work on China. My friend, You should update your history book! When the Great Wall of China was built China was not “China”. Every city till this day still has their own distinct languages and at the time of the wall construction, most major cities in China were encapsulated by a wall. Wall offered protection from enemies and prevented attack. The Great Wall of China was quite an undertaking that it was practically worthless, the short remaining stretch of the Great Wall that is there today is much more beneficial in terms of tourism than it ever was at keeping the enemies out. During the cultural revolution the Great Wall was disassembled and used to build houses, in parts of China one can still find the remaining pile of dirt and sand used to fill the wall core. One interesting thought, Trump said that Mexico was going to build the wall. But I find it interesting that regardless of who pays for it it’s still going to be Mexicans or Hispanics building the wall since most construction workers of the border region are Hispanic, some immigrants, and potentially illegals. I just find a little bit of humor at the thought of an Ilegal building a wall to keep illegals out. Anyway maybe a wall = happy president= happy country? Cuz our country has been a little grumpy lately, maybe the wall will block out all that grumpyness? Maybe I said enough! It’s past my bed time. |
|
|
|
Post by papilio28570 on Jan 18, 2019 0:49:17 GMT -8
The problem is that news organizations are no longer trustworthy. Left-wing media ignores or under reports immigration data that does not support their point of view and exaggerates statistics that they favor. The right-wing media is absolutely guilty of the same biased fake news. The internet is peppered with similar bias so you can find anything you need to support YOUR point of view. My post above was challenged for references which are provided below. These are the same references used by FactCheck to debunk the same data. Fact Check is a known left wing biased source of information as is Snopes, so who is to be believed? Reading through the references though does support the notion of an enormous financial burden being borne by US tax payers from direct welfare benefits, to prison costs, to school funding to medical care and so forth.
I do not support illegal immigration one bit but I do support legal immigration and there is a system in place which provides a path to legal status and eventual citizenship if desired. The USA accepts a million or so legal immigrants each year which is more than the rest of the world combined. (Wikipedia). Why don't these millions of "oppressed" immigrants around the world stay and fight for their rights and freedoms in their own countries? Am I to believe they will fight to defend mine once they are here?
I have many friends from Lebanon, Iraq, Guyana, Korean, Vietnamese, South Africa, Cuba, England, and even Russia who all came here LEGALLY and I have even helped a few to get their adult children here via chain migration. These are all hard working people and most own their own business and a couple have become millionaires...even employing American workers. Oops forgot to include two Germans that make a living as professional poker players.
Very few of the illegals pay taxes and those that do only pay into Social Security under fake names and security numbers. They falsify their W-2 with claims of many children so no income tax is taken out. That claim is based on experience as well as the experience of my friends in the trades. I have many medical doctor friends as well and those that are in family practice claim the majority of their Hispanic clients use government provided health care and some pay cash for minor injuries (stitches, etc) but none carry insurance.
When I ran for Congress, my plan was to institute a system whereby an immigrant registers for a background check and is issued an ID card that is similar to a credit card so that when they cross the border they simply swipe their card through a reader and the Government now knows they are now in the country. When returning home, they swipe again and are removed. If they work above table and pay taxes they are entitled to use our services..schools etc. If they work under the table, they are not eligible for any US benefits. Seemed like a simple solution but didn't get any traction because it still didn't eliminate the problem of anchor babies and didn't secure the border against terrorists and drugs.
E-verify sounds great, but your crops would rot in the fields, you would have to wait for years to have your house built due to skilled labor shortage, restaurants would not have enough staff to cook and clean. It would affect every industry. Americans would revolt if they suddenly had to pay the price for what it would cost to employ Americans to do labor intensive jobs. The American school system tries to funnel every kid into college so that now you have to go to community college to learn wood working, auto mechanics, welding, etc. These and more were taught in High School when my generation was coming along. Young Americans now lack these skills and most are reluctant to take a job in which your hands get dirty.
One or two of the participants in this thread resort to name-calling when referring to President Trump instead of using his proper name. I detested President Obama because of his policies, but never stooped to denigrate his name. I would appreciate the same respect be shown toward the current President of the United States.
References for my post mentioned above:
Steven A. Camarota, “Back Where We Started: An Examination of Trends in Immigrant Welfare Use Since Welfare Reform,” Center for Immigration Studies, March 2003.
Camarota, Steven A., “The High Cost of Cheap Labor: Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget,” Center for Immigration Studies, August 2004.
Immigration and Welfare,” Federation for American Immigration Reform, Oct 2002.
A Line in the Sand: Confronting the Threat at the Southwest Border,” prepared by the Majority Staff of House Committee on Homeland Security, Subcommittee on Investigations, Nov 2006.
Goyle, Rajeev, “Deporting the Undocumented: A Cost Assessment,” Center for American Progress. 26 July 2005.
Sending Money Home: Leveraging the Development Impact of Remittances,” Inter-American Development Bank. 18 Oct 2006.
Schurman-Kauflin, Dr. Deborah, “The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants in the United States,” Violent Crimes Institute, 2006.
Martin, Jack, “Breaking the Piggy Bank: How Illegal Immigration is Sending Schools Into the Red,” Federation for American Immigration Reform. June 2005.
Fix, Michael and Passel, Jeffrey, “U.S. Immigration—Trends and Implications for Schools,” Immigration Studies Program, The Urban Institute, 2003.
“Estimates of the Unauthorized Immigrant Population Residing in the United States: 1990-2000,” Office of Policy Planning, U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service, January 2003.
“Table 169, Current Expenditure Per Pupil in Fall Enrollment in Public Elementary and Secondary Schools, by State: 1969-70 to 1999-00,” Digest of Education Statistics 2002, National Center for Education Statistics, U.S. Department of Education.
|
|
